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	<title>Comments on: Web Development with Python</title>
	<link>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages</link>
	<description>What happens at LShift</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 03:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Tom Berger</title>
		<link>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-59554</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 12:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-59554</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;@Daniel,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That's a very good question!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;We have used functional programming languages before for web development (SISC Scheme for NMK, Eralng for TonyG's jukebox) and I would have loved to use a functional language to do development for other sites too (LISP / Scheme especially seem like excellent languages for web stuff). A few things to keep in mind, though:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;Python is, to some extent, a functional language. It isn't pure, and anonymous functions are too weak to my taste, but if you like the functional paradigm Python allows you to follow this path. I find that most of my Python code, especially for the web, is mostly functional.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;There's more to a programming language than just the language itself. When developing applications you often need to rely on existing code and tradition. Python has a fantastic community and a huge collection of libraries, which no other (dynamic) language can compete with right now - certainly none of the purely functional languages available. If we were to choose a different, functional language, it is likely that any gain we'd make in productivity would be offset by losses due to having to write a lot of code from scratch that for Python is readily available in the form of libraries, frameworks, free software and documentation.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So, Python was a great choice for a few web applications we've built, and I'm definitely going to continue with it as my primary choice for now, but I'd definitely watch the functional arena closely - the way things are developing I wouldn't be surprised if we'll have an adequate competitor soon (Haskell? Erlang? R6RS? Arc?)&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Daniel,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a very good question!</p>
<p>We have used functional programming languages before for web development (SISC Scheme for NMK, Eralng for TonyG&#8217;s jukebox) and I would have loved to use a functional language to do development for other sites too (LISP / Scheme especially seem like excellent languages for web stuff). A few things to keep in mind, though:</p>
<ol>
<li>
<p>Python is, to some extent, a functional language. It isn&#8217;t pure, and anonymous functions are too weak to my taste, but if you like the functional paradigm Python allows you to follow this path. I find that most of my Python code, especially for the web, is mostly functional.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>There&#8217;s more to a programming language than just the language itself. When developing applications you often need to rely on existing code and tradition. Python has a fantastic community and a huge collection of libraries, which no other (dynamic) language can compete with right now - certainly none of the purely functional languages available. If we were to choose a different, functional language, it is likely that any gain we&#8217;d make in productivity would be offset by losses due to having to write a lot of code from scratch that for Python is readily available in the form of libraries, frameworks, free software and documentation.</p>
</li>
</ol>
<p>So, Python was a great choice for a few web applications we&#8217;ve built, and I&#8217;m definitely going to continue with it as my primary choice for now, but I&#8217;d definitely watch the functional arena closely - the way things are developing I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if we&#8217;ll have an adequate competitor soon (Haskell? Erlang? R6RS? Arc?)</p>
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		<title>by: Daniel Kwiecinski</title>
		<link>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-59271</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 17:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-59271</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;Are you still using Python for building web apps? Have you considered any functional language for this purpose?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As I heard LShift advocates usage of Erlang, the framework worth to consider could be  &lt;a href="http://erlyweb.org" title="Erlyweb" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"&gt;Erlyweb&lt;/a&gt;. It is MVC component based framework with some RoR-like magic, build on top of &lt;a href="http://yaws.hyber.org" title="Yaws" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"&gt;Yaws&lt;/a&gt;. Yaws supports dozen or even hundreds of thousands of concurrent connections and it benefits of Erlang's features.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you still using Python for building web apps? Have you considered any functional language for this purpose?</p>
<p>As I heard LShift advocates usage of Erlang, the framework worth to consider could be  <a href="http://erlyweb.org" title="Erlyweb" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Erlyweb</a>. It is MVC component based framework with some RoR-like magic, build on top of <a href="http://yaws.hyber.org" title="Yaws" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Yaws</a>. Yaws supports dozen or even hundreds of thousands of concurrent connections and it benefits of Erlang&#8217;s features.</p>
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		<title>by: Tom Berger</title>
		<link>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-45325</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 08:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-45325</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;@Pit,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Are you suggesting that there is no way in which one programming language can be better than another?!&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Pit,</p>
<p>Are you suggesting that there is no way in which one programming language can be better than another?!</p>
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		<title>by: Pit</title>
		<link>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-45249</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 02:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-45249</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;Sometimes I am wondering why people are so black or white. I love/hate Python vs Ruby.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It is perfectly legitimate to prefer Python over Ruby but it is something else to say one is better than the other  ...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Anyway both seems kind of closed. It is the little "the shortcoming of the framework and the language" that bothers me the most. Mixing in the same sentence two completely different 'shortcomings' is not a good idea; at least when you give some respect to programmer languages in general.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes I am wondering why people are so black or white. I love/hate Python vs Ruby.</p>
<p>It is perfectly legitimate to prefer Python over Ruby but it is something else to say one is better than the other  &#8230;</p>
<p>Anyway both seems kind of closed. It is the little &#8220;the shortcoming of the framework and the language&#8221; that bothers me the most. Mixing in the same sentence two completely different &#8217;shortcomings&#8217; is not a good idea; at least when you give some respect to programmer languages in general.</p>
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		<title>by: teki321</title>
		<link>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-45248</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 01:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-45248</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;I just read this: http://jesusphreak.infogami.com/blog/vrp1&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Update by Paul Crowley:&lt;/strong&gt; this comment isn't blogspam - it links to an article entitled "Python web development and frameworks in 2007".&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read this: http://jesusphreak.infogami.com/blog/vrp1</p>
<p><strong>Update by Paul Crowley:</strong> this comment isn&#8217;t blogspam - it links to an article entitled &#8220;Python web development and frameworks in 2007&#8243;.</p>
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		<title>by: Jaramy on better web business solutions</title>
		<link>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-45247</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 00:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-45247</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;James Bennett, 
  sometimes people needs "lesser" framework than "bigger" framework - esp when making very specific app&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p>James Bennett,<br />
  sometimes people needs &#8220;lesser&#8221; framework than &#8220;bigger&#8221; framework - esp when making very specific app</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>by: James Bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-45244</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 23:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-45244</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;Out of curiosity, what didn't you like about Django? We're always looking for constructive criticism...&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Out of curiosity, what didn&#8217;t you like about Django? We&#8217;re always looking for constructive criticism&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>by: Bill Mill</title>
		<link>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-45238</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-45238</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree with Robert - check out cherrypy 3 with its routing mechanism. I find that cherrypy does the best job of staying out of my way of all the web frameworks I've tried.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It's small and simple enough, too, that you can read its code when you need to figure out how something works.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Robert - check out cherrypy 3 with its routing mechanism. I find that cherrypy does the best job of staying out of my way of all the web frameworks I&#8217;ve tried.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s small and simple enough, too, that you can read its code when you need to figure out how something works.</p>
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		<title>by: Hubert Plociniczak</title>
		<link>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-29591</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jan 2007 02:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-29591</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;Pylons main problem is its dependency on third-party plugins, libraries which themselves are quite new. Even because of that it seems to develop rapidly. I really liked the idea of good support for different template engines or SQL databases.
Besides because it is built around WSGI it is faster to implement small changes/adjust it to the project rather then getting into the code of other frameworks.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pylons main problem is its dependency on third-party plugins, libraries which themselves are quite new. Even because of that it seems to develop rapidly. I really liked the idea of good support for different template engines or SQL databases.<br />
Besides because it is built around WSGI it is faster to implement small changes/adjust it to the project rather then getting into the code of other frameworks.</p>
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		<title>by: tom</title>
		<link>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-17296</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Nov 2006 11:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.lshift.net/blog/2006/11/15/web-development-with-dynamic-languages#comment-17296</guid>
					<description>&lt;p&gt;Bob, if Pylons is as good as MochiKit, then I already like it :)&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob, if Pylons is as good as MochiKit, then I already like it :)</p>
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